@harish
Active 7 years, 1 month agoForum Replies Created
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Now we are in the Age of Supermind and Sri Aurobindo came to reverse the direction of Spiritual Quest. We are not trying to escape from the planet, but we are trying to Divinise Life on this Planet. It is not Life Denial but Life Divine. So we need a Earth-Centric Calendar and the Tropical System is the best. Our focus is on the Immanent Vishnu (who includes within him the Transcendent) and the Goddess. So we seek a Calendar that can make Life Divine on Earth Possible. It little matters if Tropical is Indian or Western, it is correct because it is in Harmony with the Spirit of the Age, and the written Vedas in Sanskrit also affirm the Tropical System (when they say “They shake not the least”).
In this Age of Aquarius, we are talking about Global Transformation and our choice of the Calendar is based on earth-centricity and the one that is widely used, so that everybody can have the lived experience. Only the Gregorian Calendar satisfies these criteria and I care not if it is Indian or Western.
Of course, if you can create an Indian Calendar that will be widely used all over the World, I will be absolutely delighted to accept it. But that is never going to happen as long as you give importance to the Nirayana System. Then, there are going to be hundreds of calendars, each one with his own “correct, logical and academic” calendar – the uncertainty is built into the system and you can never produce a single calendar for all Hindus, leave alone for the entire globe!
So don’t blame me for choosing a Christian Calendar! There is no alternative Hindu Calendar and there can never be one, as long as you base it on Nirayana! That is just our point!
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Hari Malla, the post was not addressed to you. I dont have any quarrel with you since you have your own cosmology and you want to leave this world and become lost in the E-M Barycenter (isn’t this western by the way?) and want to be with the Father. Hence Nirayana is the best calendar for you and please stick to that. Even the fact that you cannot measure perfectly (off by 0.0004 degrees) is perfect, because the Vast Transcendent Vishnu is immeasurable and your “faulty” calendar is actually perfect for your purposes.
Do understand that we are not saying Nirayana Calendar is wrong. Neither is it a fight between Indian and Westerners or Christians and Muslims and Hindus..
It was perfect for the Old Age when escaping from the World was the chief aim of human life, especially in India.
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The Vedas are INFINITE. Since Mankind will become dumb in the Age of Kali, Vyasa compiled the most important revelations in Four Books in Sanskrit Language and given it to mankind for understanding. This does not mean that only those four books are Vedas. The Mayan Pyramids are more Vedic than many temples which conduct worship to deities while denying the eternality of the Soul.
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The Gregorian Calendar is Vedic in the sense it is in keeping with the Harmony of the Age and it is most suited to make the masses have the lived experience of the Vedic Truths.
A thing is Vedic when it is Harmonious and Fulfils the Divine Will on Earth. It is not mandatory that it should created in India or even it should be written in Sanskrit.
It is the same reason why we call it Vedic Mathematic even though these methods are not found anywhere in the Vedas. These formulas were arrived at through a process of intuition – the very same methods that the Vedic Seers used to arrive at the Truth – and that is why it is Vedic! The fact that these techniques are not present in the Vedas matters little!
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There is a specific reason why Thea uses the Christian Calender. We are in the Age of Aquarius, which is the Symbol of the Friend, and as such it is a period when the flood gates of Spiritual Knowledge is being opened to the masses. This is as opposed to the previous Age of Pisces when spiritual knowledge was in the hands of a few. Clearly we need a calendar that is widely used, and the Gregorian Calendar is the one. Even the Indian government uses it and so do most Indians everyday. Clearly, the Spirit of the Age demands we use a widely used calendar, and not some hindu calendar known only to a few. But then again if you insist the world the world should use the Hindu Calendar, which one should it be? Is it yours or those of your other Nirayani Friends? You will claim yours is logical and factual, but they claim that theirs is right too. There is no dispute regarding the Gregorian Calendar and She is justified in using it.
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Your question regardin the Symbol of Capricorn in the Vedas.
It is quite clear that you do not understand the Veda at all. The Veda is not merely a book of sanskrit verses, rather it refers to the rtam, the harmony. It is found not merely in the sanskrit verses of the Rig Veda, but also in the devotional poetry of the Azhwars and Nayanmars, not to mention the Dasara Padas sung by the Kannada Saints. It is the free flowing rtam or the harmony, pictured as the river that is being dammed by hostile forces or Dasyas (the whole thing was wrong interpreted as a warfare between North Indians and South Indians, breaking each other’s dams!).
Capricorn or the Makara is the Tenth Month when the difficulty is the maximum, it is also the day/month/year when the victory is secured. As such it refers to an ascension of spirituality, its triumph over the dark forces and reaching the mountain abode of Vishnu (The Bull, fertilising with his Divine Sweetness and Power and Bliss the spiritual thoughts rising up to meet him). For this reason, Capricorn is also represented by the Mountain Top and as Thea has mentioned the Gopurams in the Temples represent the Capricorn. The Vedic Rishis were known as Kavi and they used poetic imagery to clarify spiritual concepts, but later the word came to mean any poet, though in the Bhagavad Gita there is a verse which preserves the original meaning of Kavi as Seer.
So you will not find the word CAPRICORN in the Veda, even if it is rendered in Roman Script.
But if you have eyes to SEE, you will find it almost everywhere in the Veda, in different guises.
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Your question regarding 25920 years for the Precession.
I agree NASA’s current value is around 26,000 years, but do understand that it is not the final one.
If we look at theories in physical sciences, it is to a certain extent based on faith. We see most phenomenon agreeing with Einsteins’ Relativity and so we justifiably presume that it can explain all of the functionings of the Universe.
This faith is justified because the theory is elegant and answers most questions and there is sufficient reason to believe that it can provide full explanations.
In a similar way, given the complete body of knowledge that Thea has produced and how elegantly it explains everything, I am sure as instruments become more and more perfect it will be discovered that the true time taken for the precession is 25920 years.
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Do understand that Srinivasa Ramanujan’s mathematics was all completely intuitional. It was nased entirely on Divine Comings. He did not even know logic and did not know how to prove his theorems. Professor Hardy proved most of them to be true, and even now Ramanujan’s mathematics finds application in many aspects of physical sciences. Recently, his work on modular-functions was seen as clarifying many aspects of the behaviour of Black Holes. Should we discard Ramanujan’s theories and its applicatons because it was intuitive and not logical?
Also do understand that most Physicists discovered the laws of nature intuitively and later worked out the mathematical details rigorously, which took many hours of hard work, and which had to be done to satisfy logical minds. If you are against Divine Comings, then you should stop using most scientifc inventions for they were based on divine comings. The zero too was invented by the Rishis intuitively and this computer runs on zeroes and ones. Why do you not discard the computer? Why do you, a man of logic, print e-books? Why don’t you stick with paper and ink books?
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You keep asking for FACTUAL proof. I do not understand what do you mean by that. What can be more factual than overlaying the Capricorn Symbol on the Indian Landmass and showing how it perfectly matches it? Again irrespective of whether you use the latitudes or longitudes, India always comes under Capricorn! What can be more factual and evidential than this? I guess you will accept something only if it is logical or academic, but then logic is merely a tool to arrive at the truth, not truth itself. Intuition is even better!
Most Indians say that India is the Guru among nations, but none can prove that factually. They say such things out of sentimental patriotism or they give a list of saints born in India. But I can also give a list of really great saints from the West, many of them of a greater calibre than many Indian saints, then what will be the Indian’s answer to that? I know what your unemotional answer will be, you will say I am bringing in Christianity. Only Thea has objectively proven that India is the Guru among Nations, the rest all say it out of patriotism and sentimentalism!
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I am neither daring, nor do I have guts, I am just trying my level best to clarify things to you. Others have already answered your questions, and I am just trying to open your eyes to these answers – and I am talking about physical eyes and not even your inner eye.
I will answer your questions one by one.
2-Wild beast was referred Lion by not Sri Aurobindo but by Wilson in his translation in 1854 AD that also rendered to Sayana and only in comments
Are you blind physically? Sri Aurobindo did indeed translate the word Mriga as Lion and this has been a source of great controversy. Of course this translation was by Intuition or Divine Comings, but then it is also a very accurate translation. The Saint Annamachary hymned in Telugu, praising Vishnu as “Nara-Mriga Sharira Namo Namo” referring to the Man-Lion incarnation. Obviously this must a very ancient borrowing from Sanskrit into Telugu and the word mriga has retained in the Telugu tongue the sense of “Lion”. This is a clear case where Intution and Divine Comings trump logic and academics.
When you are dealing with the Vedas, one must realise that the source of these hymns is Intuition and not logic or academics. They come from from a different and exalted state of consciousness. So the first prerequisite for reading the Vedas should be having the same type of consciousness. A consciousness rooted in academics or logic cannot make sense of the Vedas.
Secondly you have also objected to the translation of Vrsne as Bull. You have instead suggested “showerer”. It really makes no sense in that context at all.
Your fundamental problem is your inability to read the Veda as it should be – a complete body of knowledge. The Vedic Rishis did not write this word one word at a time. The Truth in its entirety was comprehended, in a flash and then the Rishi hymned spontaneously, the words falling into place with the respective meanings. Sri Aurobindo too having perceived the Truth in a flash, attributes the meaning to respective words, so that the complete sense of the Intuitive Understanding and the Meaning of the Verses is preserved.
The translation of Vrshne as Bull is even more perfect when you consider the following verses and the Complete Meaning hinted at. Vishnu as The Bull leading the many-horned herds of light makes perfect sense factually and poetically, unlike “showerer”, which may give the meaning but not the sense and nuance and the complete meaning of all the verses taken together
In mathematics and even in the physical sciences, one of tests of the correctness of a mathematical postulate or theorem or theory to explain phenomenon (in the case of physical sciences) is that it not only solves and explains the problem at hand, but also throws light on other areas of mathematics and provides clues to explanations of other physical phenomenon as well.
Vrshne as Bull not only makes sense in those verses, but does so in all Vedic verses. It enlightens the meanings and sense behind those verses and clarifies everything.
Again in the relevant verses Rig Veda 1.154, Vishnu is shown as fertilising the energies which tries to reach up to him in his high abode – again the Bull is representation of the fertilising force and goes well with the overall meaning of the Verses and clarifies the purposes of Vishnu. In fact Vrshne probably referred to the fertilising force, and since in the physical plane that particular animal does something similar, the name Vrshabha was given to it.
Thus the fundamental error committed by you is two-fold. First you have a divisive consciousness, so characteristic of the Old Age and hence you read word for word instead of taking the full meaning and sense into account. Secondly, you have Panini’s dictionary of classical sanskrit with you and try to read the words of the Vedic Sanskrit with that! How stupid can one get! Words change their meaning and sense and the only way to recover it is by going through the same conscious experience of the Vedic Sages, and not by academics or logic – you will then end up with a “terrible deer” apart from other logical and academic monstrosities.
Even English words change their meanings within a few decades, and what to speak about a language like Sanskrit?
I am myself well-versed in Sanskrit but would defer to Aurobindo’s interpretation of the words in the Rig Veda and not my own. In fact even though Thea’s knowledge of Sanskrit is “limited” , I would rather listen to her if she gives a particular meaning of a word in the Vedas than my own understanding of it (based on Paninian sanskrit).
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devinder wrote:
Dear Jan, Richard and Madam Thea, Thanks for the document Richard. I have gone through it and here are my comments: The manifestations and starting date as suggested lack the FACTUAL support that Jan was mentioning. When it comes to FACTUAL support, there is no room for intuition, divine coming or anything like this. I respect spirituality and all these divine comings, but when it comes to FACUTAL, we can’t accept it. For your kind info, we have so many saints, godmen in India and abroad that all of them claim their own dates, ages and theories as divine coming BUT none of them can be categorized as FACTUAL. First of all, rigveda 1.154 Sanskrit verse do not mention anything like Lion, Bull and the translation itself seems out of divine coming. Secondly, Rigveda 1.164.48 and similar quote from AV reflects Sun’s revolution of 360 spokes that can’t be taken as tropical sure short. Sun revolution as a standalone is not tropical in nature. Thirdly, as written earlier, cycle of 25920 years is also on assumptions and hence can’t be taken guaranteed.
Except for the controversy over the translation of mriga as Lion, by Sri Aurobindo, I think there is perfect agreement on the translation of the above-mentioned verses amongst all the Vedic Scholars
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devinder wrote:
Dear Jan, Richard and Madam Thea, Thanks for the document Richard. I have gone through it and here are my comments: The manifestations and starting date as suggested lack the FACTUAL support that Jan was mentioning. When it comes to FACTUAL support, there is no room for intuition, divine coming or anything like this. I respect spirituality and all these divine comings, but when it comes to FACUTAL, we can’t accept it. For your kind info, we have so many saints, godmen in India and abroad that all of them claim their own dates, ages and theories as divine coming BUT none of them can be categorized as FACTUAL. First of all, rigveda 1.154 Sanskrit verse do not mention anything like Lion, Bull and the translation itself seems out of divine coming. Secondly, Rigveda 1.164.48 and similar quote from AV reflects Sun’s revolution of 360 spokes that can’t be taken as tropical sure short. Sun revolution as a standalone is not tropical in nature. Thirdly, as written earlier, cycle of 25920 years is also on assumptions and hence can’t be taken guaranteed.
The fact that the circle is divided into 12 spokes (30 deg each) and 360 pegs (days) clearly proves that the Rishis divided the heavens into 12 equal parts of 30 degrees each. If they had followed the Sidereal System, this would not be possible, as some constellations are larger than 30 degrees and some smaller (also each dependent on how one superimposes the image of the animals on the constellations). The division into 12 equal spokes (12 X 30 = 360) giving rise to 360 days is clear indication of the Tropical Zodiac.
The next evidence is the statement “They Shake not in the Least”. Only the Tropical Zodiac is fixed, and since this can only refer to the Tropical Zodiac.
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