‘Perspectives’ – Evolution and the Genesis Bind


The following is a dialogue with Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet, recorded at the Aeon Centre of Cosmology in India on 15 February 1987.

I was trying to find this piece…I can’t find it in the book. Peck’s book [The People of the Lie, M. Scott Peck, Simon & Schuster, NY, 1983]. Anyway, what brought it to mind now is this talk we were having about evolution – because this is the problem that they cannot face in Christianity, in the Christian way of thinking. The problem they have with it is true. But at the same time it is also their limiting factor.

Now, if you take what we were saying before, that it is not evolving from the apes – the human consciousness – that it is not a question of preparing a vessel via that ape, or monkey, or whatever, but that…


That Consciousness is trying to find a form…


…It is trying to develop a form to fit it. And these species represent these developments, these processes in which the atmosphere of the Earth is being prepared to house higher and higher levels of consciousness.

Yes, you have to say in a sense we do evolve from that, because if that hadn’t been it would not have been possible for the human being to establish his habitat on Earth. But that if you look at it in the strictly physical sense and you cannot see that all these species are forming aspects of the Divine Consciousness in evolution, then you are stuck there.

So, there will always be that ‘missing link’, because there is no link.

In other words, when that consciousness was ready the form was also ready. I mean, the consciousness was being prepared all along, in all these other trials. But then the consciousness of man – the mental human being – actually descended then.

So, in a sense the Christian theory, Genesis, is right. In a ‘sense’.


It is that man descended ‘ready made’.


…In a way it is right.


The trouble is when you understand it literally then it becomes disastrous because it becomes a dogmatic falsehood.


And it is a joke because then you say NO to the other, YES to this. Whereas in actual fact, what I am saying is yes to the both of them, because without that evolutionary process the human consciousness… Because as you mentioned before, it is true: it is involved. Mind is involved, life is involved in matter. So it is a question of this gradual unfolding. And the animal phase of this was very important because that developed life. That is that vital level (vital-physical, really speaking). That was what was unfolding then.

Then comes the other. And obviously you’ve got to find forms that are suitable to this habitat.


But the problem so far in the evolution is that it has been… The involution has taken place and there is an evolution, but it is evolving in ignorance; or from the Inconscient. Up to this point.

And now, with the fourth element you get what you once described…about the ‘reversal’. I think you wrote about it once in one of your journals: The reversal of the 4th. Then you get evolution in truth.


That’s right. This is the point where something else can take place. For example, we are preparing a new form right now. This is evident. Now, it doesn’t mean, really, that out of my brain is going to come the new Brain. You know what I mean?

It is not that somehow, either to my children, or whatever. I mean biologically, genetically, I am going to pass that new form on. This isn’t the way it happens.

You ‘pass on’ a consciousness, a state of consciousness.


I think you pointed that out pretty well too with the Mother’s transformation and what that was involving. There’s a classic case: everybody is expecting the 95-year old person to turn into the new species.


This is precisely the point.

Now, what was it that the Mother was doing? She was doing exactly this work. She was preparing the field so that this other could manifest.

You see, again you come to this question, all these ideas about…it is going to ‘descend’ from outer space, also, in a way, have their truth. But, yet again, they’re off! Because, there again, they do not see that what we are doing here would allow for something like that to happen. That you cannot even descend in a space suit from outer space if it is not ready here. You see?

So, we are in this transitional phase, and we are working on the consciousness which will then be able to develop its own forms accordingly.

It is a very important phase. It is essential, because without this nothing else happens. But it is not that you, or me, or somebody else…we are going to turn into the supramental beings overnight, because it is really… It is irrelevant! That is not the point.

The point is to prepare the Earth for this advent, in whatever way then that the Divine… You see, it gets far more ‘mechanical’ than that: In whatever way this seed flowers. Of course it already contains in itself the means for its own flowering. And, as I’ve already said, the Supermind creates its own conditions.


These are just our mental projections, our ideas…


All the time we’ve got these ideas: it has got to be like this. I mean, I can experience in my own consciousness that there is something different here than in other consciousnesses because…. I experience it in what way? I experience it in this way, in that there is some kind of a connection made, somewhere ‘up above’ that other people do not have. Because how do I ‘see’ these things? I always feel that it is like a descent. It is almost like a seed that comes in and it’s like a suggestion, sort of. Obviously these are ‘intuitions’ – that is what it is all about. But the only thing is that in my case I feel that it is almost a constant contact; whereas somebody else may have an intuition, a ‘flash’, and you know, then they build up a whole school on one insight.

With me there seems to be some sort of a constant flow. It just keeps coming and coming. And so, that gives you the clue then, because it is something steady then that is created. A bridge that is opened. There is already something that you can go back and fourth on, let us say.


What in the Veda they called ‘stable lightnings’.


Sri Aurobindo must have written about that in those portions [of his book The Secret of the Veda] about Saraswati and the Rivers…the ‘stable lightnings’…

Well, that is the way I feel about it because they do come like lightnings. Suddenly. But it is a constant flow. I can give you any number of examples.

How did it ever occur to me, for example, in the discovery of the new planets, how they fit into that [pattern]. Now I don’t even remember. I only know that there was some clue given – not a direct clue, but something that X said. It just made me look – just look, cast a glance in that matter and that whole thing opened up.

The same thing with the Lunar Line. What is it? Some ‘seed’ that comes in and you follow that thread. But it is a steady thing. These are the preparations.

Now, obviously I wouldn’t be able to do this if Sri Aurobindo and the Mother had not cleared the way. This is clear. It is also clear that Sri Aurobindo and the Mother were experiencing this kind of steady flow too.

But that is the thing. Then you carry that forward and you realise that at a certain point you are going to have beings incarnating with the channel open.


Nothing special at all. It will be the normal level of consciousness.


Of course. But in order for that to happen you have got to prepare a field here. You have got to make the field congenial for those beings, that being – to make a permanent, stable ‘home’ here. So, it cannot be just sporadic.


It would be an abomination otherwise.


Not only that. It is a horizontal movement. This field is horizontal: you have to create a horizontal field that receives this and that is…congenial, that is attuned to this ‘new matter’, let us say.


The way things are arranged, if something like that were even conceivable you get the impression that it would just annihilate the physical universe, if something like that ‘broke the laws’.


I know.


It is not possible because it is not arranged that way.


…because it is such a perfection, where each part supports the other, that you really could not… But, you see, even these kinds of perceptions – they are impossible for the human being. Then again, he cannot conceive of something that is an evolving perfection. He conceives of a perfection as something static. But a perfection of each moment, of something in movement, is something quite difficult.


And it frightens him because it is something too impersonal. It seems to be so… To the mental consciousness it is sort of…




Yes, you know, ‘What about ME!’


Unrelated to himself.


Because he is too much bound to that immediate physical frame that he happens to inhabit at this time.


You see, at this point I don’t know that we are going to be stuck with a ‘missing link’ along the way, as there was from the vital consciousness, which was the habitat of the animal kingdom, to the mental. That ‘missing link’ there… Because you were dealing always in the lower hemisphere then.

What I think now happens is something far more…well, as you said before, conscious. And so, by conscious processes of yoga of course there are greater possibilities.

In any case it is immaterial. The important thing is this: that it is getting done. And the important thing to see is that it is not that we actually evolve from the apes but that we could not have evolved without the apes. Let’s put it like that.




There was something extraordinary in this book. The other night it opened up such a clear perception of Genesis that… And I wish I could find it. I wish I had written it down. I may have. I don’t know…

There was this question of the Serpent, and he wrote something here, without realising it. It is not that he was writing about what I am talking about. He was describing his Christian ethos. But it made it so clear that these people…they got stuck at the first part of the book, you know. They didn’t go all the way through!

I wish I could find [the passage]. It was on evil and sin; the whole book is on this question of evil, and of course he brings in sin all the time.

It had to do with… It was so evident what had happened along the way and how really beautiful it is that there is no ‘lie’. The Serpent is the symbol of time in the evolutionary drive, let us say… The power of time in the evolution. This whole question of Eve succumbing to the temptation of the Serpent is so beautifully accurate; and that from that point on they could not accept Woman anymore… That became the symbol, you see, because obviously the symbol is one – this feminine power and the Serpent, being that symbol of the evolutionary force. And Christianity – and probably Judaism, I haven’t gone into that much – has gotten stuck. And they are still combating this.

The only thing that could come out of it was this stark dichotomy: up above/here below, and good and evil. Then they got caught in this trap. That is what this book is about. The whole book is about good versus evil.

It was such a clear seeing of the truth of their position and how that tells you how far off they are… It was pathetic and at the same time so beautiful to see this. I said, at some point I will have to write about this.

But there were certain details… They will come to me, if I find the passage. There were ways that he was expressing this without realising it. Then he was saying some formidable things because he was revealing the condition of consciousness of the Christian in this matter. And how this…

Why is it that they have to deny the evolution, that the ones that are denying it are simply being true to their own experience in a way. They cannot do otherwise. But at the same time, of course, it is completely wrong. They are blocked in that consciousness.

And then… The problem as I saw it just resided in the simple fact that they made an absolute of the human being. In other words, the human being was not evolving. And therefore they made an absolute of Satan: evil – because they were putting as the ‘measure’ man, in his transitional phase. You understand? This was the problem.

So, when they began denying the Serpent and Eve and all the rest of it, and putting it all in one bundle and throwing it away in the sea, what they did then is they made an absolute condition of evil. There was Good and there was Evil, and these were absolutes. They remain that way today in the Christian faith. But they were basing this perception… (There were some things in here that he wrote which made it all so clear…) They were basing this perception on the human being.

In other words, that so-called ‘devil’ is in man, you understand? It is in man. Without the human instrument as it is now you would not perceive it. I mean, if the human being did not exist on this Earth there would be no evil.

It is clear that what Genesis says is absolutely accurate: that you ‘eat of this fruit’ and you have the knowledge of good and evil – because you have the mental capacity and no higher light with which to be able to make this distinction then.

If you remain at that – which is what the Christian has done – if you remain at that level you can only make of evil an absolute because you also make of the human being an absolute. There is nothing beyond that…

Now I remember… When we were talking about evolution it brought all this up. Because there is nothing beyond the human being. This race isn’t in transition toward something else. You make that the highest, or whatever, and you also make the devil a permanent element – because he is not going anywhere too! Because the human being is not evolving, then evil is not evolving. It is static too and it stays as a permanent feature.

Now, evil as he is describing it is purely a condition resulting from the inadequate human instrument, which in any case was never meant to be a permanent instrument, you understand? It is part of the ‘growing pains’.

So, all of this cruelty, this torture, the twist of the human  consciousness that he is describing… Oh, that’s another thing, when he brings in the question of ‘will’. For him it all revolves around that. And he brings in the question of freedom, free choice, all of that… And that these so-called evil people, where their real aberration lies is in wanting to impose their will, you see, and it is their will against God’s will.

Okay, very true. But, you know, it is a problem that arises out of this off-centre poise; and there are only different degrees of that. Some people go off on a tangent, let’s say, and become crystallised at that point; others manage to skirt around it. But the problem exists as an evolutionary problem.

So, that is why they got stuck at this immature stage, because they would not accept evolution like they would not accept the Serpent, like they made something evil of the Serpent, you see.

The Serpent was that power of evolution. So the whole thing is perfectly logical and coherent – the way it happened and the way it got crystallised like that. It is perfectly logical: Reject the Serpent, you have to reject at the same time Eve – or Womanhood, the Shakti, that power… That is what the Serpent symbolises. At the same time you have to reject evolution… They are still fighting battles over that. They are really only just now coming to terms with people like Galileo. Just imagine! Darwin? I think he is in the doghouse for good!

But, you see, the beauty of it is that it is so coherent, and all because… Of course, this is what I was seeing: why then is Sri Aurobindo’s message so important. It is so important simply because he says – this is the really big thing of his message – that we are in transition to something else.


            ‘Man is a transitional being’…


Because if you do not accept that, this change cannot come about here. And then you have to deal with all these problems about evil and good and the absolute nature of… Sure, you make of this imperfect human being a permanent, unchanging, static element and you have all of his evil static too. Because, as I say, it is through those eyes, through that instrument that these ‘absolutes’ are fixed. You change that and you come to some other possibility.

And then of course they have had to put God up in some other ‘paradise’, some other ‘garden’ somewhere else. They had to because how could you then reconcile this, you see. I mean, if you make this an absolute here, based on Man in his own image, let us say, then how can you reconcile this? How can you? Of course you have to say, No, God is separate, and it is blasphemy to say that ‘I am God’…because in me is this crystallised evil and God is all perfect and all good.


What a mess they made of it!


So total that you wonder how – for thousands of years now, more than that – you wonder how they are going to unravel it all.

He is big on sin, [Scott Peck] because he says every good Christian realises that he is sinful and that he is born in sin. That is one of their main doctrines.


It seems to me such a silly thing!


Well, it is something that has become a central tenet of their faith. Whereas you have in Hinduism this idea of sin and the punya which absolves your sins, in the bathing in the Ganges, and so on; but it is not a central feature of… It is just so conditioned by the transitional features of this race that it takes on those characteristics too. Like something peripheral. It is not at all central to Hinduism in any way. Whereas in Christianity original sin is…that is the first thing you learn about.


All the Protestant sects split up because they couldn’t come to terms with it: Calvinism and all the different European sects that developed because of that whole problem with original sin.


 Can you imagine what torture! Torture over the Shadow! And all of this, as I say, because they are not appreciating that the Divine Consciousness is evolving through all these channels, and the major one right now is through the human channel. And that it is evolving always higher and higher forms.

It is so simple.

And so, there is this desperation to find ‘the missing link’. Now, what do they expect to really find? Because, you see, what will they find? They will find, maybe, a specimen ever older of what they consider to be man’s ancestor. And then they push it back and back. But how are they ever going to get to that so-called missing link? Because, you see, what can it possibly be, I mean, that would indicate: Ah yes, this is the way you sprang from the animal state to the real human consciousness.

I don’t think they will ever come across anything like that because, again, I don’t think that is the relevant point. The point is when was the atmosphere ripe on Earth, ready to receive that? That is the important thing. And for that you have to come to an understanding of the evolution of consciousness and what it uses to prepare the terrain. And you have to look for clues like that, you understand? I mean, you wouldn’t look for clues in bones and a species. You would look for clues in a different way. Like, what was happening in the atmosphere of the Earth that would have indicated that the time was ready for that sort of a manifestation. That’s all.

But, you see, it is hopeless. It is like finding the original moment of creation. That is hopeless, all that. The important thing right now is to be conscious of this process, – right now, because essentially it is the same.

That is what hit me so strongly. You know, Sri Aurobindo’s message, really… ‘Man is a transitional being’. And of course then he goes into the nitty-gritty of it: What then is coming after this; what is the next phase? What is it?

And that is why what you can imagine happened when the mental being came was that it really was an unconscious process. That, you can imagine very easily. Something like this was almost a command. Like in Genesis: God did all the creation and put everything there, and that was it! Whereas now it is almost like… ‘the Gods descend’, really. And they participate from the other side AND here.


That is when he says, I think it is in ‘The Supramental Manifestation’, at that point evolution itself evolves.


 That’s it. That is the idea. That is exactly the idea. Because in actual fact it takes on different characteristics. Of course. It creates its own conditions then.


It becomes a luminous development then.


Of course.


And then it becomes very exciting.


Right. That is why I feel it IS exciting, because I can see what is happening. I am sure you can too. So, it is only that there is all this obstruction and opposition and everything…


‘How shall your voice convince the mind of Earth?’


Yes, really.

Well, then he [the Mother’s disciple with whom she held the discussions recorded in L’Agenda de Mere] says this about the Mother and that experience that I read out the other day [see: TVN, 2/3, August 1987]. About that experience of Absolutism: ‘The Mother has said all of this in a profound trance. It seems that one could compare her experience to that of the Vedic Rishis, as they said, “Like an eye extended in heaven”’… Because there she is talking about… Remember that experience of Absolutism? Well, and then he ends by adding, ‘Maybe this is the secret of the whole Agenda!’

Quite extraordinary, no? And the most extraordinary thing is that you cannot even write to this fellow and say, ‘You’re right on! That’s exactly what it is! You’ve found the Secret!’ Because he would combat it to death… I mean, isn’t that tragic?


Because he thinks he’s got the Secret.


No. He presumes that only HE could find it. So, if somebody else even came and said. ‘Yes, you’ve found it,’ that would presuppose that somebody else knew more than him. Because in order for somebody else to come and say, You’ve got it, it means that the other person has to know what had to be gotten in the first place!

I’m telling you, this is the way it works in the human consciousness… Because my work has been around now for ten years at least, and he could have easily come upon the verification of his feeling that this was the ‘secret’. The Magical Carousel was there; I was quoting all of this in the Commentaries

But this is the question of that ‘evil’ that Peck writes about, where these are twists in the consciousness. These are the reasons why the human being cannot perceive. One person has got this kind of a ‘hang-up,’ somebody else has got something else… And all these things are blocking that ‘eye extended in heaven’, you know, that is able then to see these things. It is the incapacities of the human instrument which indicates… It is not that I am blaming the instrument. It is not so much that I am saying the instrument conditions us as I am saying we are responsible also for the condition of that instrument; that that instrument is as it is because the evolution of consciousness has reached only this far. So, it can only house a consciousness that has these twists, let us say.

It is not even that it has these twists. Its level of…




You know, time is the key to it. Only so much can be done. Only so much of that Consciousness can manifest at certain points because time controls that manifestation, that unfolding of what is involved. So time controls the process, and nothing can manifest before ‘its time’. Because ALL the totality of conditions go into allowing whatever it is that is to come about. The human instrument is what it is because that consciousness manifesting can only express itself in certain terms which the human instrument is harmonised to express.

Clear. As you go on you have got to, at the same time, work on the instrument; that these two things are going to go hand in hand. As the time approaches when this other possibility comes into play, then at the same time it is going to evolve its own vehicle for expression.

This seems to me to be so evident. It seems to be what is happening right now: We are simply preparing, quite accurately, this new race.

But certainly NEVER in the past, in the lower echelons, was there the process as it is manifesting right now, in so conscious a form. Never was it possible for Sri Aurobindo to come and say, ‘This is the way it is going to be.’ I mean, when the mental phase came about it was a phase of ignorance, totally.

But, you are in the 9th Manifestation now. So you have come to that point where it is the birth into the higher… It is THE BIRTH! Before there wasn’t even that. So it is now that you have the… You have, well…you have the REAL destiny of Earth coming about. You have now evolving… well probably the highest species that the Earth will know. And that is when it then starts evolving consciously, you see.

Now, what I mean by that is the species, the instrument. I don’t mean that the consciousness that manifest then is static, but rather that the next instrument that evolves out of this will be that instrument that is sufficient to express all these higher states of consciousness because as yet we really have NOT expressed them. We have been evolving in ignorance and all of these instruments have been instruments of ignorance. Whereas now, at this 9th Manifestation, that so-called ‘Child’ is born – which means that it is the Earth’s child. You know what I mean. You see, it is really that Son, that divine Son that is born then: S-O-N… And that is the purpose for which she exists as a planet, you see….


            S-o-n and S-u-n.


Yes, exactly.

But how beautiful Genesis is. How accurate. I have to admit, it is probably one of the most accurate documents of a…tragic misconception!




And so accurate that it HAS to be divinely inspired. It HAS to be the ‘word of God’, because the Word of God was telling them: This is all you are going to know for the time being. And this is going to explain your calamities from now on.

This is what they say, no? That this is it: the Serpent, Eve, it was all responsible for the big mess here! And that is what happened. Genesis is telling you: This is how you came into this ‘original sin’, and this is why you are ‘born in sin’ and this is why you have to labour and sweat and all of this and ultimately die.

But what they did not say was: BUT THIS IS ONLY A PORTION OF IT!





And yet, then of course you have The Revelation.

It is almost too fantastic for words, when you think that through the Christian scriptures you have got probably the most accurate prophecy of what was going to happen on Earth than probably you have in any of the Indian ones, you know.

Clear. Because Christianity was the world vehicle, really. It conditioned the consciousness all over.


Right. Very centrally.




And so, what was the Mother seeing with this? I mean, how formidable! That totally new consciousness. And she said, Keep it secret. Destroy it [the tape]. Don’t let it out because they will think we are mad.

And then he [the disciple] says, How could I keep it secret? You know… This may be the big thing that we are looking for in the whole Agenda!

Isn’t that phenomenal?

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